Discussion Forum - General Discussion - BR TSO 4377 and 4378

BR TSO 4377 and 4378

Geoffrey Treby

Joined: 24 October 2011

Posted: 7 October 2014, 20:04:36

BR TSO 4377 & 4378 involved in Lewisham accident in 1957. Understood the frame of 4378 became S1000/DS70200 and now in use on East Somerset Railway. According to Ashley Butlin book on Mk1 Passenger Coaches book. 4377 became the above, and 4378 became IU 081342 and disposal of frame unknown. Which is correct? Did 4377 become 081342?

Steve Jordan

Joined: 18 October 2012

Posted: 2 December 2014, 22:17:27

Hi there, recently saw this posting and decided to fish around one or two contacts and came up with the following. Cannot verify S1000's donor underframe, however 081342 was not a Mk1 carriage at all but ex SNCF cupboard door mineral wagon B193967 based at Littlehampton, its disposal is unrecorded. 4377 & 4378 were brand new in 1957 and, these are my own thoughts, if the underframe of 4378 was in good enough condition it would possibly have been reused as Mk1's were in continuous production into the early 1960's. There are records for some internal user vehicles but the further back you go the more incomplete they are so details are sketchy. Hope this helps regards Steve

John Hall

Joined: 7 July 2011

Posted: 17 December 2014, 08:24:45

BR Mark 1 Coaches 4377, 4378, (bodywork only) and 35006 were all scrapped at BR Newhaven C&W week-ending 11/01/1958, however the underframe from 4378 shows as scrapped at the same location week-ending 01/02/1958 so in theory the donor underframe for S1000S came from neither vehicle although if the SR notes are incorrect then 4378 is the more likely of the pair of TSO vehicles. I have DS70200 converted in November 1963 but cannot work out if S1000S predates this or not. All the best John

Jeff Eastmond

Joined: 26 January 2014

Posted: 19 April 2015, 23:01:48

All the discussion I have seen on this point has concluded that S4378 was the donor underframe for S1000S. The contemporary report on the Railway Observer notes that S4377 was 'completely crushed' and S4378 'had half its roof torn off. S4378 and the neighbouring catering car were the only two seriously damaged vehicles to be moved on their own wheels after the accident, so it is more than likely S4378 is the donor...

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