Current number:
320897
Any other previous number(s):
E12190E
Notes:
Llangollen Railway (underframe only for LNER 4268) Previously quoted as ex E12189 based on paintwork observation at Mangapps but official records show E12190
Livery:
BLACK
Preserved Railway / Museum:
Llangollen Railway
Categories:
Preserved vehicles
DE series
Not seen recently / to check

Comments

The following comments have been left on photos of this vehicle. To reply, just visit one of the photos.

• 10 May 2013 - Terence Smith

  According to Preserved Railway Carriages 1992 Edition, by John Lloyd & Murray Brown.

  The following history of this coach is:-

  1931 built to Dia 27A as an RTO numbered 6118

  1946 numbered 12190

  1960 numbered DE320897

  P'?? by Resco but stored 'till 4/1983 located at Steamtown.

• 15 May 2013 - Dave Cullingworth

  This carriage went to Mangapps Farm Museum in 1992 but the body was scrapped in 1994. The underframe is now at the Llangollen Railway. There seems to be some confusion over the numbering if what is recorded on the VCT site is correct:

  http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=981

• 7 June 2014 - Paul Walter Bartlett

  My photo of 1975 shows it clearly numbered DE12180 (not 90!)

• 8 June 2014 - Ben Williams

  12180 not 12189?!

• 5 July 2015 - Paul Walter Bartlett

  Well there was a 12180 at Hitchin, recorded twice

  http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerdepartmentalcoach/e3ac00a14

• 23 October 2025 - Russell Withington

  According to the Llangollen Railway Stock Book (Published Feb 2015) this was “Sold and moved away October 2014.”

• 23 October 2025 - Roger Harris

  If you look on the VCT website, there is a photo of the u/f at Llangollen taken on 18/5/18 by Steve West. Can anyone confirm it's still on site in 2025 ?

• 24 October 2025 - Russell Withington

  So LNER 4268 (as in the Gresley Teak body) was moved onto yet another underframe, and this is the combination that's listed as ZDB 975399 (and is noted as arriving at Llanwrthwl in 2014)?

• 24 March 2026 - Russell Withington

  See the recently uploaded photograph of ZDB 975399, which is still on a LNE underframe (I have a photograph of one of the cast axle boxes which has LNE-N above an H), and strongly implies that this underframe was moved to Doldowlod Caravan Park as part of LNER 4268 in late 2014.

  Unfortunately there is no plate - it's just about possible to see where it was on the frame a little to the right of the 'door'.

• 25 March 2026 - John Hall

  E12190E was scrapped at BR Ranskill C&W around September 1961 in period 23/1961. E12180E was converted to departmental stock in around April 1963 in period 14/1963.

• 25 March 2026 - Russell Withington

  To quote the caption of the photograph of LNER 4268 in the Llangollen Railway Stock Book: "It now sits on the frames from Gresley 61710 which was scrapped at Mangapps farm."

  So the questions become "Are the Notes correct? is the underframe that LNER 4268 was put on from DE 320897? and is that the underframe that LNER 4268 is still on?" - it all looks to be very confusing!

• 26 March 2026 - Paul Johnson

  4268 retained it's underframe just it was stripped so it could be grounded. It sits on the bogies of 61710 which will have provided the bogie pivots. The Carriage Survey says 61710 underframe was scrapped .

• 27 March 2026 - Russell Withington

  Which I think means that the 'Notes' at the very top of the description of DE 320897 need a subtle amendment so that they start "Llangollen Railway (underframe only, bogies used for LNER 4268) ..."